Legal Question in Wills and Trusts in North Carolina

Father's trust (I am trustee) is in VT. I'm keeping track of expenditures in Excel. Bank statements are reconciled this way and printed. My trips to check on the house are also noted this way. What precises will I need to provide if/after the house (worth <200k) sells and we're ready to close the trust. I CPA said he could do trust accounting BUT when I asked him if he needed all receipts attached, he was befudded. My lawyer just said account for every penny and that is as vague as annoying can be. My siblings would sign off on my accounting - no doubt. I've read about paper shuffling (sorry - it takes jobs/money away from someone) is done. So, I'm left totally confused. Dad left a Trust and the house is in the Trust. He did not leave a will. We never had much cash and if the house continues not to sell the total "estate" may be worth about $300k or less (w/one distribution that I made with everyone signing off on it). I do not live in VT and am handing this all from other states.


Asked on 6/11/11, 12:38 pm

1 Answer from Attorneys

So why are you asking an NC attorney? You need to speak to an estate & trust attorney in Vermont since the trust is governed by the laws of Vermont. If you have an attorney, then you need to speak with him and if he is not answering your question, I would seriously consider firing him and finding a new attorney.

I don't understand how your father could have a trust set up but no will. Did he not at least have a pourover will? A pourover will "pours over" any assets that are not into the trust for whatever reason after probate of the estate.

If your father had no will, then any assets solely owned by your father (not the trust) would have to be probated in accord with Vermont intestacy law if that is where your father lived at the time of his death. If not, then in the county/state of his residence. If he truly owned absolutely nothing since all assets were in the trust, then you may need a document from the court stating that no probate is needed.

I don't care that your siblings signed off on anything - that is not relevant. Look at the trust to see if accountings are required and who gets notified. I think its good practice to have more communication rather than less, and even if its not required, I would at least once a year send an accounting to the beneficiaries of the trust (or their guardians if they are minors) and advise them as to the status. While an accounting can take many forms, it has to indicate what the assets were when you assumed control of the trust, what revenue you took in (if any) and what disbursements were made (repairs to home, mortgage payments, taxes, insurance, paying advisors, paying yourself, etc.) and the new balance.

What are "precises?" Is this a misspelling of "receipts" or something else?

Once your father died, the trustee generally needs to apply for a federal tax id number from the IRS. I don't know when your father died, but final tax returns need filed for him. The trust may also need to file tax returns with the IRS and the state. Your CPA should help you with that and again, if he cannot answer your question, I also would think about firing him and getting someone who can. This is not brain surgery or rocket science and the CPA and attorney should be reasonably competent enough to answer your questions.

The only way to know what the house is truly worth is to have it appraised. Pay for the appraisal; this should be a valid trust expense. Once you know what the home is worth, get a real estate agent and make any needed repairs. Sometimes, there are little things that can be done cosmetically to make the home more saleable. And now is the time to sell - the snow is gone, the kids are out of school and people are looking NOW so this is your best time to sell.

Is the house owned free and clear or is there a mortgage? I know real estate values have fallen, but if the house has not sold, you are going to have to drop the price until it does or do something with it, like rent it out. If the house sold for less than what your father paid for it, you will have a loss; if more than for what he paid, a gain on which the trust will have to pay tax. The trust has expenses, such as for a CPA, lawyer, appraisal, any real estate taxes, etc.

I don't understand your question or beef. Your lawyer gave you the correct advice. You have to account for every single penny that you receive for or spend on the trust. If you get a new roof for the trust house, you get a receipt for it and note it on your spreadsheet. If you pay an attorney, you get a bill and when you pay it, mark the bill as paid, stick it in your file and note it on your spreadsheet. Do this for all expenses, whether it is cutting the grass or whatever. When you get income (like if you sell timber or rent out the home), then you presumably get some kind of evidence and give a receipt for the income to the person who paid, a copy of which you would keep for you.

Depending on what the trust says, a trustee may or may not get compensation. Read the trust document to see how that is calculated. It may be a percentage of gross receipts or something else. If it does not say, then note your time on your spreadsheet too. Your time is worth something and a value will have to be assigned to the time spent. This will be a disbursement to you. You will have to be reasonable about your trips to see the house, but you will have to talk to your lawyer about reimbursement of your travel expenses and something to compensate you for your time.

Now, what is so hard about all of this?

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Answered on 6/13/11, 3:11 pm


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